第六节 贸易的讨论(二)
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第六节贸易的讨论（二）
季思退不屑道：“这是我大清之伟业非大明之盛世也。龙腾小说ltxs520.com”
“虽然不想卷入某些无味的争执，但必须说这是事实。能产生资本主义萌芽的社会，商业活动必然更加活跃，而这反映出的就是人均购买力和生活水平的较高水准。”马上有明粉支持化工部部长的观点。
“还有一个因素是清末厘金极重而明代几乎没有税关。所以清末商品流动其实很差大家都倾向于本地化的自然经济生产。”季思退继续道。
杜雯侃侃而谈：“明后期商品化率提高的结果就是剥削的加重和社会的动乱，旧中国一百年也是如此。另外，清的商品化率低和地主乡绅势力受压制，人口增加和旧交通环境下城镇人口承载力不足有关。”
“不要谈的太远了。”马千瞩制止了杜雯的继续高论，杜雯听话的闭嘴了。
“我觉得明代所谓的资本主义萌芽夸大了，一般老百姓有多少消费水平，d日到现在大家有目共睹，诸位觉得这样的社会有多少购买力？”
“你这个比喻不大好，21世纪的临高的消费层次也不高。”
“即使是21世纪的临高，它也是个商业社会，而非自然经济社会。区别很大。”
“拿不管是哪个时空的临高来做例子是没什么意义的，”文德嗣说，“正如对那些改革开放初期期望在中国能够‘每个中国人买我一样东西’就能发财的外国资本家一样。百分之九十的中国人还是不会买他的东西。消费能力自古至今是只集中在大城市里的。我们的地位其实和这些资本家是一样的。市场看似广大，但是我们只能挑选那些有能力的地区去销售。广东、江南、京师才是我们商品的销售市场――其他地方就自动忽略好了，中原和西北的老百姓连当太平狗都没门，不会来消费我们的产品。”
罗铎说：“这些地方就自动过滤好了，只谈文总说的可能的目标吧！没有厘金，商品流通性就好么？根本问题是老百姓没有钱，他拿什么来消费？这跟消费习惯没关系，没钱自然要节省。之所以不消费，还是一个字：穷！”
“我看未必：看本地的地主就知道了。再怎么一个土财主，其实顿顿吃细粮、吃肉都没问题的。但是消费水准呢？多数地主平常还经常吃番薯粥。肉也是逢年过节才吃。”
杜雯说：“宗族小农经济条件下很多情况下劳动价值加勤俭节约是积累原始资本的唯一出路。农业劳动的习惯使人们回避投机主义价值观和风险价值观。”
于鄂水点头道：“所以说，走内销商业路线就必须从改造消费习惯开始，但具体要怎么实现呢？”
“培养中产阶级。底层人民的购买力是很有限的。”
“太简单了，典型的中产阶级万能论。”杜雯对这样没深度的发言嗤之以鼻，“在我看来，要改变这种习惯至少要做到山点：一、改变中国古代的自然经济加上改变农业自由资本主义价值；二、缔造出一个“中产阶层”；三是提高整体人均经济水平。第三点在古代或者二次工业革命前是个过于缓慢的过程，穿越者有生之年不要指望全国人均经济水平有几倍的提高。第二点要注意：不是资本家或地主阶层，不过要克服社会达尔文主义自然规律缔造一个枣核性社会依然相当困难。而且在古代人均经济水平有限及提高不可能很快的情况下枣核性社会依然是对社会稳定有破坏作用的。总之：自然经济社会是个相当稳定的体系，要改变它不付出大的社会动荡及代价是不可能的。”
“一听女王念主义，头就是注定要疼的。不过去掉那些华丽的辞藻我还是觉得你说得不错。”何影说。
马千瞩说：“不要人身攻击。有论点谈论点，大家围绕问题谈。”
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